NOTE: Total Escape is not a bunch of raging beer gusling
Glamis freak off-roaderers.
This narrow minded view below is common among Eco Club Enthusiasts
who have only been taught what they know from the 'propaganda'
they get at their meetings. Most never attend Forest Service meetings
& learn the other sides points from: fire fighters, hunters,
fishermen, mountain residents & off-road clubs.
I dislike the high pitch scream of a 2 stroke
motorcycle too!
ECO-FREAK > to get away
from the very people you claim to represent
DANAMITE --- I simply illustrate
the people who like to camp primitive on back roads with their
SUVs. People who like solitude, but cannot always afford the time
away for a 3-4 day backpacking trip. I like my space, quietness
& even yoga/mediation. I do not wanna be camping right on
top of another camper in a big campground. Just because there
are others that enjoy the same kinda outdoor recreation as me,
doesn't mean I wanna camp along side them. When you see another
backpacker setting up camp, do you choose to make the least amount
of impact & camp right next to them in their clearing? or
do you try to choose a private spots away from them & give
them their privacy ?
ECO-FREAK > to get away
from all of the families and music and vehicles of groups like
yours in the first place.
DANAMITE --- I rarly bring MUSIC
to my campsite; I am a child-free single & plan to stay that
way. Like so many of my camper pals I prefer to camp alone &
not neccessarily in a large group or campground.
ECO-FREAK > Backpacking
IS treading lightly.
DANAMITE --- Not everyone CAN
backpack. Plenty of people who wish to explore, do not have the
means physically to carry all their gear OR the extra days off
& extended time it takes to enjoy such a back country trip.
ECO-FREAK > Day hiking IS
treading lightly.
DANAMITE --- I day hike all the
time too ( IN additional to my back road exploration & remote
camping ) We usually do a mtn bike ride or day hike on every outting.
ECO-FREAK > you should be
allowed drive all over our National Forests, making noise, compacting
soil, trampling vegetation, leaking oils in a gas-guzzling SUV
and still consider yourself to be "treading lightly".
DANAMITE --- I do not wish to
drive ALL over the forest; just on the existing dirt roads that
have been there for the 70+ years. No need to cut new trails or
damage the vegetation. I enjoy unspoiled lands as much as anyone
does.
ECO-FREAK > freewheeling
SUV'ers you claim are taught impeccable backcountry ethics.
DANAMITE ---
That is the POINT - these people were NOT taught ethics or proper
camping techniques. The NF Rangers, BLM, Sierra Club, etc. do
not offer such educational programs & private organizations
such as mine can only do so much in teaching newbies in the wilderness.
A good majority of the litter problem is cultural. I see so much
trash on the roadsides while traveling in Baja, it just blows
my mind. I do suspect that some trash here in the US ( border
areas like Cleveland NF ) comes from people who do understand
the impacts of their actions.
ECO-FREAK > Comparision
- solitary hiker vs. what can be dumped out by a 4X4 ?
DANAMITE --- A uneducated hiker
can poop in a stream & cause much polution to the environment,
while a voluteer group of SUVs 6 miles away spend a weekend cleaning
up back country lands.
ECO-FREAK > say"no"
to runaway growth.
Go fight with the developers too & the real estate people.
AND buy a home in an older neigborhood in the city & not in
suburbia sprall.
ECO-FREAK > be carved up
into a freewheeling sandbox
DANAMITE --- I am in favor of
no new roads, please just keep old ones open.The old logging roads
can serve as recreation & help in aiding fire fighters. Do
you hear & understand my views? I loathe the Glamis, Imperial
Dunes kinda wheelin' style & prefer not to camp in a big party
scene. I like overnight seclusion on dirt back roads & this
is my biggest concern with all the closures.
ECO-FREAK > I guess old
forest roads etc are fine too.
DANAMITE --- THAT IS MY POINT!!!
I don't want new dirt roads 'carved' silly.
ECO-FREAK > as there is
for camping on freeways and the interstate.
DANAMITE --- Camping like right
next to San Onofre? Or open camping along Hwy. 78 in Anza Borrego?
ECO-FREAK > Next time park
at a trailhead and walk ..... get 10x more appreciation for your
surroundings than if yer sitting in yer truck.
DANAMITE --- I USE my truck to
reach remote areas to get away from the crowds & I often like
to camp there as well. DAY HIKING is part of my normal routine
when I am out enjoying nature. So it's not like I am some overly
obese 4x4 Jeep cow who never leaves the seat of my vehicle. I
love hiking; just not back packing. Here is the kicker folks...
I don't even own a 4WD. My little beast is a mere mini SUV 2WD,
that goes a heck of a lotta cool places all around this gorgeous
state.
Off roading in Wilderness
Part of the definition of a wilderness area is an "area without
roads".
I am in favor of multiple use, which leaves areas for hikers,
bikers and off-pavement recreationalists.
Most opinions say that using existing roads is okay, in fact most
backpackers/hikers that I know utilize dirt road to get to trail
heads.
Most off-roaders are not looking for "new"
areas to use, they are just wanting to keep roads that are open,
open. I don't see anything wrong with that, as long as regulations
are set for that use.
Hikers, bikers, 4-wheelers . . . all, for the most part are responsible
users. It is always the few that cause problems for the many,
but I have never felt that rules and regulations should be written
for the few. There should be penalty for the few but the opportunities
should still be there for the many.
For those that think that everything should be off limits to everything
mechanized, well you are just elitists that don't want to really
recognize that fact that public lands are for the public, not
just a few that are physically able to hike for days on end.
The land belongs to all and I think that there is room for sharing.
Enjoy the wildernesses, I do. Others enjoy the more open areas
where they can recreate with their vehicles, I enjoy this as well.
I like driving along a dirt road, stopping here and there to enjoy
the scenery, stop for lunch, stop for a hike. I like to recreate
from my vehicle and I don't want to always park in a parking lot
and let my outdoor experience start "just" when I leave
my vehicle. I can enjoy nature with my vehicle and as far as that
goes with other friends in other vehicles that may join me for
a drive.
One of you have segregated everything into "wilderness"
and "freeways", don't be so closed minded to not see
that there are several levels in between.
And as for the over building in CA, someone had to make room for
all of the people that want to come here and live. Did you complain
when you where able to find a job and a home? If land is in the
hands of private property owners and they purchased it to develop
within the regulations that where set forth at the time of purchase,
I find it hard to believe that they sometimes cannot follow through
with there plans.
Too many opinions to express here, too many overlapping subjects.
I just ask people to not be to closed minded on outdoor recreation.
The public lands do belong to everybody.
- Lttlbddy Steve Gardiner
